transaction fees - Around EUR 40 to withdraw from MtGox ...
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Fee for withdrawing bitcoin from mtgox?
I tested withdrawing bitcoins from mtgox with a transaction of 0.01 btc. I saw in my account history the 0.01 btc transaction and another fee transaction of 0.001 btc. That's 10%? Can anybody enlighten me for what that fee is and why it is that high? Thanks
What is the Withdrawal fee of MtGox for withdrawaling your bitcoins?
I have over $100 worth of bitcoins in MtGox right now I want to transfer over to Bitfloor, and they are saying I do not have enough to cover the fee. THERE IS NO GOD DAMNED WAY A BITCOIN TRANSFER SHOULD COST OVER A HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS.
Do NOT use ACX. They will not let you withdraw your AUD.
They have been holding my funds close to a month now claiming delays and will not send me my AUD I requested a month ago. It's fine to deposit money to them, yet they won't let you withdraw it. What a scam.
An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks
Hey guys. Merry Xmas ! I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively. The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow. I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
A. What is required to open an account in a Private bank when you made your fortune through crypto.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise. *The origin of your crypto wealth *Your background (residence, citizenship and probity) These two aspects must be documented in-depth. How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit. 1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start. Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice. 2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand. Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier. The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous. The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here: *proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early. *story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day. *micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning. *signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ? *ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow. The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow: *Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig. *Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful. *Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened. *Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet. *Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time. The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me. The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative. The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on https://localbitcoins.com/ and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point. Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria: *Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk *AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted *Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises... *Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
B. The tax issue I am not a tax specialist, but I can say that this year I have seen it all. Again I am not judging. You made $100m hodling, and still wouldn’t pay your taxes ? Your decision.I personally advise everyone to pay their taxes, but also to be generous, to give to charities. I mean you eventually made it. Good for you. What about you contribute to make the world a better place now? I will stop patronizing you. It’s just my 2cts, and it’s your money.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me. First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards. For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t. EU tricks Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible. Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand. Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really. Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way. Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids? Dubaï
Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
Spend one day every 6 month there
Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen. The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains). The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again. Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly. “Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out. The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
C. The cash out itself So you have accumulated patiently a good amount of wealth. For some of us who have been involved in crypto since 2010, it took years. Remember when BTC was stuck at 200$ for months? I personally feel like it was yesterday. There is no way you screw up your wealth by cashing out in a hurry or with low security standards. Here is how the cash out takes should place.
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;) What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight. The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard. Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp, The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny. Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts. Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks. Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier) Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around. Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary. Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately. The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused. Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them! The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax. The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million. Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction. Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
Dear *********** Thank you for your patience and support all throughout 2013. As we noted in our previous update there are many things happening, and we’re proud to announce two more major developments that will make MtGox both easier and more economical for our valued customers: 1) One million MtGox customers and reduced fees for the holidays! Thanks to our loyal customer and increased global interest in Bitcoin, MtGox has now achieved a milestone of over one million customers and growing. This is an incredible moment for us all, and to celebrate, we are offering a Special Holiday Discount of 25% off all trading fees starting today, December 20th 2013 to January 20th 2014! 2) Mayzus MoneyPolo Partnership We are proud to announce a new partnership with Mayzus MoneyPolo that will enable our customers outside of the United States to deposit quickly and without long processing times. Now that we are working with Mayzus MoneyPolo, a leading financial company that is in-tune with the future of Bitcoin, anyone with a verified account will be able to quickly send money to their MtGox account via 128 global currencies. For more information, please click on the following link: https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20131219.html Thank you again for your support, Best regards, MtGox Team
Warning: Verified MtGox Account Locked - No Answers!
I've been using this account for over a year now. Apart from the more publicized problems they've had, things have been relatively smooth since I got it verified (which was a pain in the ass, btw). On Monday I tried to withdraw $600 via Dwolla and it never went through. Despite numerous emails trying to get some details, all I get from support is "we'll keep you updated" Can we please, as a community, move away from this too-big-for-its- britches exchange and get volume going on the other exchanges? Bitfloor was great before the hack, Campbx has always treated me well but has poor rates/spreads, Bitme seems like it has potential. I'm seriously fed-up the lack of care or transparency at Mt.Gox. (edit) My transaction status has gone from "Confirmed" to "Todo" and people are telling me that MtGox regularly has problems processing Dwolla transactions. I don't have any problem with this as much as the complete lack of communication from MtGox on the matter. It's one thing to have unprofessional, week-long delays of funds, its another to refuse to acknowledge it.
I've been trying to withdraw from those fucking assholes for months. They won't tell me when withdrawals will resume, only that "there is a delay on withdrawals due to large volume of withdrawal queue". Will I ever be able to get my money back? Has anyone else dealt with this problem effectively?
Imagine this... Hacker gains control of 250k BTC... Hacker sells 250k BTC at $0.01 USD knowing that it will quickly deplete to that level and burn through the standing buy orders... Hacker has 100+ MtGox accounts ready and waiting to buy BTC at $0.01 USD a piece and then cash out the entire amount of BTC from each of the accounts since the most recent and voluminous value would be at the $0.01 trading level... In other words, the hackers could have extracted almost EVERY bitcoin from the initial trade on MtGox had the price of actually dipped to $0.01 and "Kevin" had not purchased them all at $0.0101. They would have only needed to press "withrdaw 10,000 BTC" from each of the ghost accounts (that purchased the BTC at $0.01 a few seconds ago).
OKcoin and other Asia based exchanges are very likely manipulating the price of bitcoin on a regular basis.
In my opinion zero/low fee Asian exchanges are manipulating the price of bitcoin on a regular basis. By Asian exchanges I'm referencing the ones specifically that offer zero fee trading. (BTCChina is reputable in my opinion) Many people question why Bitcoin has fallen so sharply from $1000+ and bring up the willybot as an excuse for that rise. As many have pointed out including the person who discovered willy, Mtgox had minimal involvement in the rise and it was rather massive orders placed through Asian exchanges. I have absolutely no proof this is the case, but you have to take a step back and think to yourself, what would the incentive be for these exchanges to act honestly. Bitcoin trading is not even regulated, individuals are free to attempt to manipulate its value as much as they please. Exchanges like OKcoin can view the full order-book of its futures traders and place fake trades that they know will force liquidations and use that to profit off traders. Obviously OKcoin & others have acted dishonestly in the past and feature a ZERO fee on futures trades, you have to wonder if that's for good reason. This is coupled with the fact that over the past few months anyone who's traded has seen ridiculous and illogical trades, both dumps and buys taking place on these exchanges and forcing mass liquidation. I think anyone who trusts exchanges such as Huobi, OKcoin, and Bitfinex are toxic towards the health and future of Bitcoin. I'd compare this situation towards a bitcoin dice site offering a low or 0% house edge and then rigging rolls through a lack of proper provable fairness. We need to push for these exchanges to somehow become "provably fair" or abandon them for more reputable exchanges such as Gemini (if it ever comes). tl;dr :I find it unlikely that an exchange that participates in money laundering & forgery would look away from the persistent opportunity to steal millions in a completely undetectable manner. EDIT: I was somewhat misinformed with regards to zero fees, however I feel the point still stands.
5 Reasons Why Storing your Crypto on an Exchange is a Bad Idea!
Most of us already know that storing cryptocurrency is inconvenient and almost too difficult. It’s not surprising, given how new the technology is. We’re still a little while away before we hit high adoption rates for cryptocurrency because of this. But with tech startups paving the way for innovative solutions around storing cryptocurrencies,we’ll hopefully experience more convenience, security, and trustworthy services. For some of us that continue with the struggle, we continue the with the hard route and ‘be our own bank_’. Others continue to go down the _somewhat easier route: leaving their cryptocurrency on the exchange. Keeping your cryptocurrencies on exchanges does offer some benefits though. Pros:
Offers liquidity — transfer coins in/out very quickly
No danger of losing access because of forgotten passwords or seeds
Low fees to transfer between coins
Access to a large number of altcoins
Offer multi wallet capability (storage for multiple cryptocurrencies)
No technical knowledge required to setup
Offers two factor authentication
These are significant advantages over cold storage solutions currently. However, the following will make you think twice before you keep your cryptocurrency on an exchange.
5. Exchange BTC-E seized by FBI- locking users funds
Mid 2017 BTC-E, a popular exchange in the past, was seized by the FBI over the alleged Alexander Vinnik who was found guilty of laundering funds through the exchange. Alexander Vinnik was originally thought to be one of the operators of the website, however these claims were denied by BTC-E later on. Since then BTC-E has shipped operations to New Zealand and re-branded to WEX. It is believed that most users have been able to access their funds. Having said that, it was difficult time during the down-time, with all users unsure if they’d ever be able to access their funds. Although the user base continues to grow, the community had been split over BTC-E. Several users have resisted transacting on the exchange due to their secretive operations. On the other hand BTC-E has had significant support, one user commenting “BTC-E deserves respect” over their commitment to re-opening the portal to it’s users. It has been in-evident that BTC-E played any part in the laundering. So, although BTC-E may not have been 100% at fault- the story does show you the risk you put yourself against trusting a third party to mind your coins for you.
4. Indian crypto exchange Coinsecure loses $3.5m in customers’ bitcoin
April 2018 An exchange operating in India had nearly $3.5 million worth of user’s Bitcoin stolen. The company blamed the security chief, Dr Amitabh Saxena for stealing the funds. Regardless of how the 438.318 Bitcoin went missing- it clearly shows the lack of protective measures exchanges get away with. Coinsecure claims that they are working “_day in and day out, and investigations are in full swing for a possible recovery of the lost BTC_”. However they are treading carefully, even with their promises, their website states “should we be able to recover all of our BTC, all BTC holdings will be refunded”. Key words being ‘should we be able to’.
3. Italian exchange BitGrail claims $195 million worth of Nano (XRB) lost through hack
February 2018 The exchange claimed that the cryptocurrency was stolen through a hack. Bitgrail have not accepted responsibility for the breach, claiming that the Nano cryptocurrency was flawed. Nano on the other hand continues to hold its ground, stating: “to date, all reliable evidence we have reviewed continues to point to a bug in BitGrail’s exchange software as the reason for the loss of funds.”
Once again, BitGrail confirms to have been a victim of theft. A crime made possible by taking advantage of known failures in the NANO team’s various software (Rai Node and the Official Block Explorer) and therefore, for these reasons and in accordance with the law, BitGrail doesn’t consider itself responsible for the unforeseen circumstances.- Official statement from BitGrail
After several months of halt, Bitgrail has announced a commencement of operations on 2 May 2018 at 10:00 UTC stating, “the markets and withdrawals will be operating for all coins, except for NANO/XRB. BitGrail re-open the NANO/XRB market for users at a date to be announced shortly.”
2. $400 Million Goes Missing From Japanese cryptocurrency Exchange Coincheck
January 2018 Yet another unsettling few months for investors as they wait for 500 million XEM tokens to be refunded after they were stolen. The Japanese exchangehalted all trading at the time and have recently restarted trading. This was regarded as one of the biggest cryptocurrency thefts, next to the infamous Mt Gox saga.
1. Mt. Gox Declares bankruptcy over 850,000 missing Bitcoin
2011–2014 Mt. Gox at its prime was regarded as one of the biggest Bitcoin exchanges. Unfortunately, it came to a nasty end once it was found that an extensive number of Bitcoins went missing. Investigations in 2015 found that the coins went missing over time, starting in 2011. By far, the most infamous and nerve wrecking loss in the history of cryptocurrency. The saga continues to date though, with the trustee claiming to have sold a large chunk of Bitcoin in early 2018. It was speculated but not definitive that this had a large hand in causing the Bitcoin crash around the time. The above is not intended to spread FUD. It is a reminder to be careful on how you store your cryptocurrency and raise awareness of the potential risks. The statement ‘be your own bank’, rings true still. It will continue to do so until we can receive service offerings that combine cryptocurrency with convenience, trust, and security. Having said that, there are also severe risks you carry if you do become your own bank. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t! Here’s a quick run down on different storage methods for cryptocurrencyand their associated risks. Most of the cryptocurrencies in the market today are based on ERC20. So you can also download this free guide on storing Ethereum and ERC20 tokens. But if you decide to continue storing your cryptocurrency on an exchange you may want to do the following:
Diversify across multiple exchanges- keeping your crypto on multiple exchange means less risk of losing ALL your holdings in case one exchange goes down or shuts down
Keep a small portion on an exchange for transfers while the rest in cold storage.
The bot is online 24/7 so you don't have to wait for the other person to wake up at the same time.
How it works
The seller of the TF2 items will trade the bot using Steam trade and set a price either in USD or Bitcoin.
The seller gives the buyer the tradeID.
The buyer then deposits money into the bot with a Mtgox code which represents money.
The buyer purchases the items with the tradeID.
The seller can then withdraw the money from the bot through a Mtgox code. Or use the balance to buy other people's items.
Is it safe? We have already tested multiple trades with several people already, but no one can guarantee any system is completely safe. Identities are managed by Steam, so we do not record your passwords. All transactions are logged. We already had a working version back in October, but we decided to test it some more before releasing it to the general public. It is always possible for Valve to clawback any items, especially if the items were gained by a credit-card chargeback. This is a fundamental problem for Steam, not an inherent problem in our system. Can I sell anything else besides TF2 items? Currently no. It is against the terms of agreement to sell Spiral Knights items, and there is a Valve support page that says you are not allowed to sell Steam gifts for money. We also do not have Portal 2. Links
[Anno 2014]However, exchanges are able to create paper bitcoin and as demonstrated by the leaked MtGox data, non-existent fiat currency was created in MtGox's database and used to run up the price of Bitcoin before the MtGox collapse.
Quote: "Bitcoin has not developed an options or derivatives market yet. However, exchanges are able to create paper bitcoin and as demonstrated by the leaked MtGox data, non-existent fiat currency was created in MtGox's database and used to run up the price of Bitcoin before the MtGox collapse. Bitcoin will likely become subject to the same manipulations and worse." "An exchange can add a Litecoin to an account in a database and then a user can sell that Litecoin. The litecoin may not exist and the exchange may have to buy the litecoin, to cover a withdrawal. An exchange with withdrawal limits or withdrawal fees, engaged in heavy manipulation, may be solvent indefinitely. An exchange, suffering insolvency may silently and secretly haircut a fraction of users balances and there is no indication to the user that it even occurred. There is no way to prove that reports of stolen funds are real, instead of an anonymous attack on honest exchanges by dishonest competitors." ...A project from 2014 over at Bitcointalk wrote that. The same line could be used now, 4 years later just with Tether.
Want to relay my recent experience to help other canucks entering the cryptocurrency scene. I wanted to invest 100K in both main coins and some alt coins. Depositing that amount can’t be done using ETF/bank-transfeetc. – the only reasonably quick way is to wire funds. For wires, most exchanges have a percentage based deposit fee – something that makes absolutely no sense to me. Whether you wire 1K or 1MM, the amount of work for the exchange is identical, so it should be a flat fee. Deciding on an exchange is more complicated than that though: each one has their own rules for minimums/maximums, trading fees, supported coins, holding periods, and withdrawal fees. They also can vary greatly on the amount of time verification takes. One thing to note is that pretty much all exchanges don’t charge a fee for inbound crypto transfers. 2 months ago I signed up for 10 exchanges (Coinbase/GDAX, Binance, Coinsquare, Kraken, ezBTC, QuadrigaCX, Bitfinex, Gemeni, Bittrex, Poloniex) and was verified on 7 of them (I’m still in queue for Gemeni, Bittrex, and Poloniex). Verification times gave me what I thought was a decent indicator of the level and quality of support I would receive. Of these exchanges, some have what I believe to be relatively high trading fees (Gemeni .25%, Bittrex, .25%, ezBTC .30%, QuadrigaCX .50%) vs lower maketaker fees (GDAX 0/.3%, Binance .1/.1%, Gitfinex .1/.2%, Coinsquare .1/.2%, Kraken .16/.26%). Still others have high percentage based wire fees. And finally, there’s a big disparity between withdrawal fees: free on some exchanes, vs fixed rate based on the coin for others, vs Coinsquare’s insane fixed 0.0025 BTC regardless of what coin or the amount being withdrawn. So here are some observations on the exchanges. Please note that the below is not a reflection on any of the people who work at the exchanges. I’m sure they are working as hard as they can and are doing their best. It’s just my experience. It’s also not financial advice. Also, I’m only human so feel free to offer corrections or better advice. Coinsquare: amazingly fast verification time, and for very large deposits seems to likely be the best option as they will let you speak to a human being by phone and will waive the deposit fee (I didn’t know this until later though). I excluded them because of their high 0.5% percentage based deposit fee and their crazy high withdrawal fee. They also only have support for 6 coins. QuadrigaCX: I had a terrible initial experience with QuadrigaCX’s support, so I immediately excluded them. They have high trading fees and there are many complaints of support tickets being ignored or having extremely lengthy wait times. They have a crazy high 1% percentage based CAD wire fee, but offer free USD wires. Note that they only support wires for large amounts. GDAX/Coinbase: Loads of good reviews, but only has support for 4 coins. Seems like they also don’t have a fee for crypto withdrawals. You also can’t seem to wire CAD or USD funds directly to GDAX. I think you may have to wire USD funds to Coinbase and then transfer them over to GDAX (for free). Kraken: I created an account but the verification page just appeared blank for me. After a few days, their support team got back to me telling me that they had a bug and that I needed to create a new account using a different email address and try again. That worked. I decided to use them as they seemed like the best all-around alternative. I was impressed with their support response (they gave me an answer that worked and responded in days as opposed to weeks), they offer a no-fee inbound CAD wire, support 16 coins, and have low (though not free) crypto withdrawal fees. They have also been around a while and have a good reputation (They were picked to handle MtGox claims). Wiring funds to them was a hair-raising experience though. You basically need to send your funds to an unknown bank in Tokyo, Japan. Kraken also has two slightly different sets of wire instructions: one that is on their website, and the other that their support folks send out. Only one of them mentions that you should tell your bank not to use an intermediary that will convert your currency. If you do things properly, and are lucky, you end up only paying ~$40 in fees. But chances are, you don’t, and end up paying 4%! (see https://www.reddit.com/BitcoinCA/comments/7rd6k8/fees_when_sending_to_krakencom/). You also have no idea how much the fees will be until the money finally shows up in your account. That’s tremendously unsettling. Luckily my bank branch manager was familiar with crypto currency wires and helped me do things properly. But, the wire took over 2 weeks to show up (Jan 18th), and Kraken support is so overloaded that they didn’t’ respond, despite me escalating my support ticket several times. I eventually had to resort to a reddit post to get a response to my support ticket. I gave support my wire receipt and answered lots of additional questions to help them try to “locate” it. Perhaps the worst part of my entire experience was that while my wire was being located, the entire crypto market tanked by 50%...and no one would respond to my support ticket…I felt helpless. A Kraken support rep a few days ago said that they are handing >50K new user registrations per day and have >20K new support tickets per day. I feel they should turn off new user registrations until they are capable of servicing existing customers. This is what their competitors have done. I found it disheartening to learn that the only way to get a response to my support ticket was to complain via social media --- many others have found the same. While I was waiting for my wire to appear Kraken had a >48h outage. Prior to the outage, the site was almost unusable as you’d receive constant 50x errors (I found this out prior to wiring my funds). After the outage, I find that their site is still barely usable. Pages take 10-15 seconds to load and when they do load many times they display errors so you have to continually retry until things work. At the end of the day though, they did come through for me: my wire arrived safely. So with my funds in Kraken, I tried to use them to purchase crypto. But no matter what I tried, none of the CAD dollar trading pairs would appear. I logged out and back in a few times and 15 minutes later, it suddenly started appearing. With the flakiness in Kraken’s platform, I had no choice but to transfer everything to a more stable and faster exchange: Binance: These guys have their shit in order. Super simple site navigation once you get used to it, fast verification times, blazingly fast website and trading engine, more than 50 coins supported, etc. But, they don’t support fiat – you must use one of the other exchanges to buy crypto with fiat and then transfer in your crypto. Gotta say it again: everything is super fast. Not just the page loads, but also trading, email confirmations, and withdrawals. Trading takes a bit of getting used to as you aren’t really buying or selling crypto…you are instead “trading” one crypto coin for another. Depending on the coin you want to purchase, you might have to trade your coin for BNB (binance’s own coin) and then trade BNB for the coin you desire. Be Your Own Bank: One final word of advice. Binance is awesome, but don’t trust anyone as despite everyone’s best intentions: no matter how secure a platform is, it can and will be hacked. As soon as you have done your shopping, transfer your coins off to your own wallet. This is why withdrawal fees are important. You might be asking: in hindsight, if I had to do it all over again, what would I do differently? To wire CAD funds I would try to use Coinsquare if it’s a big amount (after re-reading other people’s recent reviews). For USD wires, I might try using Gemeni, but I still haven’t been verified by them and have been waiting for almost 2 months. Before using either I would re-test how long it takes for a support ticket to be responded to. If you do wire funds, don't wire an exact round amount like "10,000.00", instead I would wire "10,070.45" so that it's easier to locate if things go wrong. Once the account has been funded I wouldn’t hesitate to transfer everything to another exchange if I wasn’t happy with the platform, the number of coin offerings, or quality of service I was receiving: you can always come back when things improve. Things change so quickly so not sure how helpful this will be…just wished I had known some of the above before starting.
Edit: This is purely speculation. I'm willing to believe that MtGox will resume withdrawals once they solve the technical issues. Step 1. Notice that there isn't enough BTC or USD to handle even the pending withdrawals Step 2. Halt BTC withdrawals, causing a massive crash on MtGox Step 3. Buy BTC on MtGox at the reduced price Step 4. Sell this cheap BTC (which they have access to, of course) on other exchanges, making a massive profit Step 5. Blame a well known bug in BTC for the delay. Continue this process for weeks until enough profit has been made. Step 6. MtGox now has: a ton of cheap bitcoin, a ton of profit made from selling the cheap bitcoin, and a ton of profit made from the trading fees during the panic. Re-open withdrawals of both USD and Bitcoin, solvency problem is solved.
Is Vault of Satoshi sufficient for experiencing daytrading? What is the process of removing funds from VOS?
Hello, I'm currently in the research phase for a thesis concerning Bitcoin. I am trying to experience all facets of the currency. I would like to day trade and am drawn to both VOS and Mt.Gox. Ultimately I would like to remove the funds from either of these exchanges after a week or so to use for other means, so I am curious what the process is and how difficult it might be to remove either coins or CAD? Info for both scenarios/currencies would be appreciated.
Bitcoin Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for Bitcoin crypto-currency enthusiasts. It only takes a minute to sign up. ... I d suggest to rename the title to something like "hidden fees on international withdrawal from mtgox" , could help people find their answer easily in the future , and more accurate imho – neofutur Apr 25 '13 at ... Exchange Fees Withdrawal Fee • 0.60% Taker Fee • 0.60% Maker Fee Deposit Methods Wire transfer Credit Card Cryptocurrency Supported Cryptos (1) Bitcoin. Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Reddit Share on VKontakte Share by Mail Mt. Gox is a dead exchange. At one point in time, it was the biggest marketplace for Bitcoin trading in ... In 2010, when McCaleb was trying to buy some Bitcoins, he found lack of any reliable and user-friendly Bitcoin exchange site. This led him to try and start his own Bitcoin exchange. He ran a card trading game site by the name of Mt Gox (domain: mtgox.com) which he decided to transform into an Bitcoin exchange. So I cancelled the withdrawal, bought Bitcoins, transferred them to a different exchange and sold them. I've moved virtually all of my money out of MtGox that way. It cost me about 10% - but that's better than the 100% that I fear will happen at MtGox. – user6500 Aug 24 '13 at 10:31 Mt. Gox, called "Mount Gox" or simply "Gox", was the most widely used bitcoin currency exchange market from shortly after its inception in 2010 to its insolvency late 2013. The market was closed February 25, 2014 and has since filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan and the United States, after losing 640 thousand bitcoins.. A registrant on Mt. Gox had at least two sub-accounts: one for ...
SUBSCRIBE AND PARTICIPATE IN MY GIVE AWA'S THANK YOU FOR WATCHING https://youtu.be/nQJrgYhQpLg ----- 👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇 https://youtu.be ... Japanese courts have given permission for those that lost bitcoins in the #bankruptcy of the Mt. Gox #cryptocurrency exchange to make a claim and have the 160,000 coins available returned ... What Is Withdrawal Fees In Bitcoin Altcoin What is Withdrawaling fees in Cryptocurrency Friends is video main hum apko batayenge Bitcoin Altcoin ki Withdraw... Transcript: Hello, I'm Roger Ver, long time Bitcoin proponent. About 7 months ago, purely as a favor to Mtgox, I made a video stating that their fiat withdrawal problems were not being caused by a ... Transferring 23.23 USD from MtGox to BTC-e via Bitinstant (1.49% fee). 4. Receiving 22.89 USD on BTC-e Bitcoin exchange. 5. Buying new Bitcoins for a price of 11.40 USD/BTC getting 2.0037 BTC ...